Adam Holcroft-Tebbutt - Bold Conversations
Join Gem and Adam as they chat about the challenging times Trans and Autistic communities are currently facing. They discuss how fashion can be a powerful tool for activism, the benefits of working for ourselves as Autistics, and the importance of finding community. Plus lots more!
Adam Holcroft-Tebbutt (he/him) is a Trans and Autistic activist, designer, and founder of Rainbow & Co – an independent LGBTQIA+ brand based in West Yorkshire. Through bold, politically charged designs, Adam uses his platform to amplify queer voices, challenge rainbow-washing, and create space for marginalised identities.
Where can you find Adam?
Rainbow & Co - https://rainbowandco.uk
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/rainbowandcouk/
Transcript
Okay, so it looks like we're live. I'm tempted to go and check, but I think it's all good, it looks fine. ⁓ So yay, thank you so much for joining me, Adam. I'm really excited to talk to you, and also you just told me literally like a minute ago that it's your birthday tomorrow, so that makes me even more excited that you joined us for your birthday, Eve. ⁓ I'm gonna introduce you, and I just wanted to say a little bit about what we're doing, what Bold Conversations is.
Adam (He/Him) (:Nailed it.
Gem Kennedy (:There's a lot of shit going on in the world right now and it's quite hard to be a trans and or autistic person and I wanted to basically make a space where I can talk to cool trans and autistic people about what they're doing, what's keeping them going and I think it's really bold to exist as ourselves in this world so yeah, like with the theme of boldness, like how can we be bold in our lives as far as possible whilst also feeling as safe hopefully as possible.
⁓ So let me introduce you and then you can tell us a bit more about yourself. But I have ⁓ your amazing bio here. So Adam Holcroft-Tebbit is a trans and autistic, well I'll start again, is a trans and autistic activist, designer and founder of Rainbow & Co, an independent LGBTQIA plus brand based in West Yorkshire. Through bold politically charged designs, Adam uses his platform to amplify queer voices, challenge rainbow washing and create space for marginalized identities.
He's passionate about community building, queer visibility and driving real change through grassroots activism. Adam lives in Ripondam with his husband and is a firm believer that joy and resistance go hand in hand. I love your bio and also ⁓ I love your t-shirts. I'm not getting paid anything to do this, but we're both wearing t-shirts from Rainbow and Co coincidentally. ⁓ Mine says witches for trans rights, which I'm obsessed with ⁓ as a witchy person and a trans person.
Adam (He/Him) (:Yes. Love it.
Gem Kennedy (:⁓ But yeah, it would be great to hear a bit more about you and anything you'd like to share really.
Adam (He/Him) (:Yeah, that was a perfect introduction. So I'm Adam Hawkoff Tebbert. I'm trans and autistic and I'm the founder of Rainbow and Co, which is a queer led independent brand in West Yorkshire. I design and make everything that we sell, try to be as inclusive as possible. We currently have over 40 different LGBTQ identities and I'm really open to people like...
saying, can you do me a mug in this identity, like really flexible and adding new identities all the time. ⁓ I started Rainbow Encore because two reasons. One, I had a mental health breakdown in a traditional job, which resulted in my autism diagnosis. And I just decided that I needed to work for myself, that I couldn't function in a normal role, a traditional job role. And also that I'd been going to Pride.
quite a few years with my friends and things and I'm trans a lot of my friendship group at the time was trans but then all of the stuff that you saw at Pride was just for gay cis men really so I was like I wanted to create a brand that was more tailored to every other aspect of the LGBT community because that's just one avenue so yeah so now I produce everything for t-shirts, tote bags, enamel pins
badges and 95 % of that I make myself in my apartment. You can see the background like, think yourself lucky that it's slightly blurred because it's an absolute tip at the minute. And we donate 10 % of profits to LGBTQ organizations. Realistically, it's way more than 10%, but I just say 10 % so that it's kept at a minimum because I'll just throw in money out here.
left right and centre. If my accountant knew how much I actually gave away they'd be like, what are you doing? But yeah, the brand is like rooted in purpose rather than profit. It's not about me being, you know, a millionaire. I would rather represent people and help people feel seen than just profit for profit's sake. So yeah.
Gem Kennedy (:No.
you
Yeah,
I have so many questions even just given what you said there. Yeah, also like I'm aware that I will be very enthusiastic but I would just like encourage people to, ⁓ I guess when I'm running workshops and things I always will say like if I'm enthusiastic it's because I genuinely am and I think as autistics like it's quite hard to keep that in and I used to be very you know like professional and try to.
Adam (He/Him) (:Hahaha!
Gem Kennedy (:keep it contained but I don't want to do that anymore so yeah I'm gonna be enthusiastic I can't help it ⁓ and yeah I think we met like well we met at Reclaiming's business which is an amazing inclusive event that Lindsay McGroan runs and is running again in October ⁓ but amazing so will I ⁓ and the thing that I really
Adam (He/Him) (:Yeah.
You don't love your own life. Yeah.
I'll be there again in October as well.
Gem Kennedy (:sort of hadn't really thought about before until I saw you in your work was like how I know it probably sounds really obvious but how ⁓ you can ⁓
get across a message from wearing a t-shirt and I hadn't really ever considered that as being like something that was connected to activism and obviously like we often think about it as being connected to like advertising or branding of things but thinking about how we can you know just as a trans person even like signal to other people that we're trans without necessarily being super obvious and like wearing a big pride flag around our shoulders and or also like just being out and about doing your daily things and wearing a t-shirt that may be
Adam (He/Him) (:Yeah.
Gem Kennedy (:has like a challenging message on it. It just hadn't really occurred to me before and that probably sounds really, really obvious, especially to you, because that's what you do. ⁓
Adam (He/Him) (:Yeah.
It's interesting that you mentioned advertising because I did advertising design as my degree. But I've never really thought about the connection. I suppose when I was doing that, I was always trying to do campaigns that were related to causes or things. So my dissertation was, can advertising be ethical? So I was like, so I've never even put the two together before, but it does kind of follow on from doing that in my degree.
and using advertising for more positive things than just buy our stuff.
Gem Kennedy (:Yeah, exactly. And now I'm thinking about all the different cool slogans that you have, but I guess thinking about the work that you do and given that you are visible in your business as a trans and autistic person, how is that for you right now and how are you kind of, well I guess my next question would be how are you getting by? But ⁓ yeah, first of all, how is it for you being a trans and autistic, ⁓ trans plus an autistic person?
Adam (He/Him) (:Yeah,
I feel like I'm quite lucky in that I feel like I've been so I've been like on testosterone for like 15 years, like I've been transitioning a long time and I feel like I don't even think about it even though I think about it in the context of the business but in my day-to-day life I don't even think about it so when but I've noticed that recently more of the people around me are asking am I all right and like you know
Gem Kennedy (:Yeah.
Adam (He/Him) (:because they're seeing stuff in the media. We went to Sister's concert on Wednesday and I wore my We Will Not Be Erased shirt and my husband wore the Transphobia Roxy Brain shirt because part of the proceeds from the concerts were going to, it's not a face, not a face. So I was like, oh, we've got to wear our Trans Right shirts. But then afterwards we went to McDonald's on the way home and now my sister's
Gem Kennedy (:Amazing.
Adam (He/Him) (:meal was ready before hours and I said go and sit in the car if you want she said no no ⁓ you're basically a target for hate crime I'm not leaving you on your own and I was like right okay I was like we're just studying McDonald's but she was like I don't feel like you're safe to be left here with those t-shirts on I just kind of do it and don't even think about it but it's other people around me that I've seen being more aware of things obviously because it's slightly more mainstream
Gem Kennedy (:Thank
Adam (He/Him) (:issues that are going on at the minute.
Gem Kennedy (:Yeah,
yeah, yeah that makes a lot of sense but I guess also given, I don't know about how it is for you but I think often when we work with lots of trans plus and autistic people for example ⁓ or people who like are modernised in some way it's
it becomes your sort of bubble in your circle and so it's just normal and then it's only when you're sort of interfacing with like in other places that maybe you might be like ⁓ like okay not everyone gets this or like not everyone is as open-minded as I tend to come across in my day-to-day life.
Adam (He/Him) (:Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely it is that. like, if I'm like, I say like 90 % of my friend group is like, either LGBTQ or neurodivergent in some way. And then the people who aren't is like just my family really. But they're all obviously huge allies and supportive and things. So I don't even really think about it. But I was, I was thinking the other day, like I'm a really anxious person through my autism anyway, but
Gem Kennedy (:Yeah.
Adam (He/Him) (:thought to myself it's no wonder that like your nervous system was shot is it like in the situation you find ourselves in but i never even really thought about it because i just i identify as an anxious person anyway but then i'm like there's reason to be like it's not just being anxious for no reason which i have experienced a lot there's all these things happening and people are saying to you you're not safe to be you know wearing that in public or you're not safe to do this and that
Gem Kennedy (:Yeah.
Yes.
Adam (He/Him) (:thought it's just not a surprise is it that you're on edge all the time yeah
Gem Kennedy (:Yeah, for sure. I totally hear
you around that it's so hard to access regulation right now for all sorts of reasons. And that makes me think, actually, why are we specifically focusing on trans, plus and autistic people in these conversations? It's because, obviously, if anyone has been connected to the news or what's been going on in the UK and the US and Hungary, lots of other places in the world, there's a real downturn in trans rights. The Supreme Court ruling in the UK,
don't need to tell you it's horrendous. ⁓ But then also like thinking obviously there's a high crossover between like trans plus and queer and neurodivergent people ⁓ and like both of us are autistic I'm also ADHD and ⁓ and
I'm not going to talk about the people because I don't want their names in my podcast or in my interview with you but ⁓ there are people in the UK for example who are talking about ⁓ autistic people basically they're being over diagnosed or over identified and it's you know like there's all kinds of excuses why actually being autistic isn't a thing or it's not valid and then obviously in the US there's talk about creating a register of autistic people which is terrifying. ⁓
Adam (He/Him) (:Yeah, yeah.
Gem Kennedy (:So all of that to say that like the climate is incredibly hostile and I think before where we were just kind of going about our lives and doing cool work with cool people, now there's this real like resurgence of no it is actually quite dangerous, it is like bold to be doing this kind of work and not just hiding away or you know doing things behind the scenes. yeah. Yeah go on.
Adam (He/Him) (:I think one thing that I wanted to say
as well was I feel like obviously I've been involved with trans rights and stuff all through my life just being trans but I feel like having the privilege of passing a lot of things have not really impacted me whereas the new like the Supreme Court ruling and things all the fallout from that is looking more likely that it would it will impact me so things like I got my gender recognition certificate last year just so that I could get married
And then it's like all this stuff coming up that's like, you know, if it could make gender recognition certificates redundant, would that mean that I'm no longer married? Or would it mean that my husband's now married to a woman? Like, it's just... I feel like it's more personal. Where I obviously cared about the stuff going on before, but it didn't impact me on a personal level. So now I'm just kind of like, oh crap, like... I've never really...
Gem Kennedy (:Yeah.
Yeah.
Adam (He/Him) (:I feel like when I was younger, early transitioning, I felt vulnerable because of being trans, but I don't... I haven't really felt that again for a long time until recently because of the personal impact. So, yeah, it's a bit... it's a different... I usually feel vulnerable through being autistic because people are... like, my mum's always said things to me like, oh, I don't want you to go for a walk on your own because I'm scared, like, you'll get lost or something will happen to you, blah, blah, blah. But it's never been I don't want you to do that because you're trans.
Gem Kennedy (:Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yeah.
Adam (He/Him) (:But I
feel like now, it's kind of both. It's like, well, yeah. It's just like I said before, it's no wonder that we're struggling, some of us.
Gem Kennedy (:Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Yeah, definitely. And it makes me think of my next question that I had shared with you was around like, you mentioned your nervous system, feeling quite hard to feel regulated. Obviously as autistic people, it's really often harder than non-autistics to feel regulated. ⁓ And so is there anything that's helping you get through? And it could be like an idea, it could be a person, a thing, a show, like anything at all that you can think of.
Adam (He/Him) (:I feel like in the most part it's a bit sad really but it's because I work for myself I literally like during the week I don't really go out I don't really see things happening I see stuff like on Twitter and stuff but it's an active choice for me to go and read that stuff I'm not really like putting myself amongst things and then just I feel like I've got
Gem Kennedy (:Yeah.
Adam (He/Him) (:great family, great friends around me. And the community just like through the Rainbow and Co. community, like we try to, I obviously try to talk about the things that happening, but I also try to keep things positive. And like people commenting on my posts and stuff like that. Like there's a nice little community there. And I'm going to be launching a community, a membership later this year for my customers, which will hopefully be a bit of a...
hesitate to say safe space but a place that is people will know because it's come from Rainbow and Cone it's hosted by me that it is you can come there and talk about stuff so yeah I suppose that sort of in a creative outlet kind of way I've been like planning all that kind of thing and in the past few weeks I've started hosting an in-person like social meetup in Rochdale where I'm originally from ⁓
Gem Kennedy (:Yeah.
Adam (He/Him) (:LGBTQ people in Rochdale and it started out the first couple of weeks nobody came and I was just sat there on my own and then three people came and then I didn't go to this week's one because I was at the Scissor Sisters concert but more people came this week and I think what really struck me was what one of the people who came was an older trans woman and she literally said to me she I've never met another trans person to speak to but I
Gem Kennedy (:Thank
Great.
Adam (He/Him) (:decided like she's transitioned and like Gone on hormones and had surgery in XYZ all herself with her wife and never met another trans person to speak to Until coming to that group and she said I've come to the group because I thought ⁓ you know everything that's going on in the world other people might need someone to talk to Sounds like that was really powerful for me because I was like, my god like you've made the decision to come and speak and you've never spoke to It's not just trans people at the group, but
Gem Kennedy (:Hmm
Yeah.
Adam (He/Him) (:she specifically said you know everything that's going on I thought I'd want someone to talk to so I thought I'll come and be someone for someone else to talk to so I thought that was so things like that like all this just community really that's all the good is out there and I think that's actually I've said to someone else like it's been obviously the things with like the Supreme Court and everything going on is not good but in terms of I've had a lot more
Gem Kennedy (:Yeah. Yeah. ⁓
Adam (He/Him) (:custom from people buying trans rights stuff. I've had a lot more people just coming out and saying things in support of trans rights who I wouldn't necessarily expect to, who've not really been, I've not seen before say anything and they have now. So there are some positives to it as well.
Gem Kennedy (:Okay.
Yeah, yeah, it almost... I've noticed that too, it's almost like with the increase of shit things it has, it kind of also is shining a light on like some of the really good things and some of the people who really do care about things or ⁓ yeah, it's kind of spreading the conversation but like thinking about, you were saying earlier, I can't remember
Now my brain's forgotten exactly what the thing was, it made me think about, ⁓ it blows my mind when people don't know any queer or trans people. I know that we tend to sort of be together. If we find out, for example, that we're autistic, we're also often like, wow, lots of my friends are. ⁓ But that, yeah, it just blows my mind that people...
don't feel like they don't know any trans or queer people or like don't make any effort to but then I guess that's the same with any marginalized identity people tend to just like congregate in their little groups and as in like say white, cis, middle class society those people are just like hanging out together they're not necessarily yeah meeting other people and maybe that's how all of this can get so bad because there's no one I don't know what yeah it's really complex but
Adam (He/Him) (:And I think,
Gem Kennedy (:Yeah.
Adam (He/Him) (:I think it's that by being part of the LGBTQ community or the neurodivergent community, you've got that frame of mind. So when I meet someone, I don't just assume that the male or female, I either wait for them to tell me or like, I don't just assume that that's the default, whereas other people do. Not all people obviously, but I mean, if they're not part of those communities, they're immediately like, they'll see me and think, that's a man. Like, that's a guy. I'll just treat them.
Gem Kennedy (:Yeah.
Yeah.
Adam (He/Him) (:accordingly or use the pronouns that I assume is he him pronouns or whatever. Whereas I assume that you probably do the same when you meet someone you don't just think ⁓ that person's got long hair they're a woman. So I think it's just that frame of mind but then I think some of the stuff that's happened in the past ⁓ it's too abstract to people so they're like like you say I don't know any queer people so
Gem Kennedy (:Yes.
Yeah. ⁓
Adam (He/Him) (:I'm not really paying attention to that kind of stuff happening, but I feel like the Supreme Court stuff and like the fallout from that of people talking about the toilets and things like that, the things that I've seen on like just people who I'm friends with on Facebook, people who I'm friends with who I... I wouldn't be friends with them if they were transphobic, obviously, but they've never explicitly said anything in support. They've seen things about, you know, it's just men trying to come into women's toilets kind of thing.
Gem Kennedy (:Yeah.
Thank you.
Adam (He/Him) (:But then they're standing up there and saying, hang on a minute, I've never had any issue with trans women, my issues with men. So it's just kind of, instead of being too abstract for them, it's sort of, ⁓ this is coming into my space now, so I'll have an opinion about it. Or I'll at least think about it. Whereas before they would have brushed it under the carpet because it was kind of yeah, I don't know any queer people, I don't know any trans people.
Gem Kennedy (:Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Teehee.
Yeah, yeah, and particularly this time, yeah, exactly, yeah. And like, I'm almost, well, I'm certain that there are ways in which, like, I'm not affected by issues, and so I don't engage with them until they're sort of on my radar or, ⁓ you know, come up in a way, yeah. yeah, definitely. Yeah, it's kind of like we've probably only got a certain level of awareness.
Adam (He/Him) (:I'm all right.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, it's not a blame thing, it's just a... This is how it is.
Yeah.
Gem Kennedy (:and then it's only when you're sort of confronted with it there's the choice to either engage or to not. And obviously for people who have more privilege, they can easily just not engage in it because they don't need to. Yeah. And I guess I'm really conscious of wanting to talk a bit more about along the thread of what we've just been talking about, but also it makes me so mad that we're even having to think about toilets and...
Adam (He/Him) (:Yeah.
Gem Kennedy (:I mean it's like why why yeah so I guess I'm gonna I'm gonna check what my next question was to make sure that I yeah maybe this brings us on then to like this idea of like it is bold to be an out trans and autistic person and can you tell us about a time where you made a bold choice I'm sure there are many ⁓ and how it changed you
Adam (He/Him) (:Hahaha
Well, loads of things in my life. Like starting Rainbow and Co is probably one of them. ⁓ Just because, you know, I had to leave my previous job through having a mental health breakdown. ⁓ And I was... My previous job, I had this meltdown. was literally driving to work crying every day, sitting around the corner from work crying, ringing my mum being like, I can't go in.
Gem Kennedy (:You
Adam (He/Him) (:⁓ But I didn't really have a reason for it other than I'm an anxious person basically because I was still going through the process of trying to get an autism diagnosis at that point ⁓ and in the end I just had to quit my job because I was like I can't do this anymore like ⁓ and I think my mum was worried like what are you gonna do like I've lived at home so I didn't have
Gem Kennedy (:Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Adam (He/Him) (:I didn't have rent in a typical sense, but she was just like, what are you going to do? I think she worried that I would just fester at home, basically. And I was like, oh, I'm going to start this business. And I was like, don't worry. I'm like, it's going to be a success. I'm going to make something of it. And I think she were probably like, yeah, all right, whatever. Get over there. But like, you know, we've been going seven years now. it's, you know, I think I can't remember what the status, but it's something like 50 % of businesses.
Gem Kennedy (:Yeah.
Adam (He/Him) (:fail in three in the first three years or what something like that. And also you I actually thought at the time. That. So was twenty eighteen when I started, I thought, oh, this is like the worst it'll get for the queer community because you think that things are going to progress. And that was you know, it was was kind of a bold thing to launch a brand that was talking about trans people, was talking about non-binary, bisexual, anyone other than gay cis men.
Gem Kennedy (:Yeah, wow.
Wow! Yeah, yeah.
Adam (He/Him) (:And I do still care to forget this meantless, to put that out there. But yeah, things have just got worse. So I feel like it's probably more bold of me to be here with my brand now than it was then, even though at that time I thought that it was... Yeah. But it's...
Gem Kennedy (:You
Adam (He/Him) (:given me like purpose and stability and like ways to connect with people that don't mean me necessarily going out into the world. Obviously I do my stalls and things but like I say most of the time I'm working from home but I've got that community through the internet so yeah.
Gem Kennedy (:Yeah.
Yeah,
yeah that's so cool. It makes me think of almost like, it's a very classic, obviously not to generalise, but like for some autistics, it's very common for us to essentially like make a business or make a sort of way of life through our special interests or things we're passionate about and then the fact that you can have like connection with people. ⁓
Adam (He/Him) (:Yeah. Yeah.
Gem Kennedy (:through not having to be face to face, that's also really helpful isn't it, to have that community and that sense of connection but not necessarily be out and about all the time going into an office. ⁓
Adam (He/Him) (:Yeah,
I think that's the that's a different point, that's the next worry for me is that I'm kind of at my limit of what I can do on my own. So I need to start hiring people. And it's kind of like I'm a perfectionist. I like to be in control. And it's not just from a business point of view, but also from a. I don't want anyone speaking on behalf of the business and saying something that.
Gem Kennedy (:You
honey.
Adam (He/Him) (:doesn't match with the values that I have for the business. So yeah, that's my next sort of challenge.
Gem Kennedy (:Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, I'm sure you'll figure it out but yeah I can see how that's a challenge. ⁓ I think it's yeah, I'm often thinking about scale and that when you are, when there's like a lot of important values sort of embedded in what you do it's really hard to scale and not necessarily the right thing but yeah it's a kind of ⁓ a thing to figure out isn't it. ⁓
Adam (He/Him) (:Mm.
Yeah.
Mm.
Yeah, I think that's,
I've like grown really, really steadily, but I've grown every year where I've seen other competitors come into the market and they only last about a year before they disappear because they've either gone too big, too fast or other reasons. Obviously, like the economy is not great. So, but I feel like maybe one of the
Gem Kennedy (:Thank
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Adam (He/Him) (:positives of being trans and being autistic is that I'm very... erm, what's the word? I'm very determined and I'm very... I suppose like setting my ways like once I've retired you to do something like I'll figure out how to make it work rather than... so even if you know sales did tank and I would still figure something out that was still working for myself and like because I kind of feel like I've not really got any other option like
Gem Kennedy (:Yeah.
You're hilarious.
Adam (He/Him) (:That's just... I can't function in a traditional job, so I need to make it work.
Gem Kennedy (:Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Again, like, now my brain's really busy with like different directions, but I guess one of them is that often, again, if we are late identified, we've had that like burnout experience and then it's like, no, you literally can't go back to how things were before. It's not even a choice. Like, the idea of maybe like forcing ourselves into whatever it was that we did before would, it's just like impossible. ⁓ Really.
Adam (He/Him) (:I
Yeah. Yeah.
Hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I think about it all the time. I think,
you know, because I could go and get a job, be an e-commerce manager for a brand and be on 60 grand a year. But I could do it for 18 months and then I'd completely break down and be in bed for the next six. So it's like, is it worth it? And it's just that I think when I was younger and I did advertising at uni, I wanted to be a creative director in an ad agency.
Gem Kennedy (:Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Adam (He/Him) (:And I was like, this is my goal, this is my goal, this is my goal. And then after I had a breakdown in my second year at uni, and then I just kind of realised, I was like, no, like I think my primary goal was to be not rich, but like to have a good income whilst being creative. And then since I had my meltdown at work and got my diagnosis, it just completely turned on its head. And I'm just like...
Gem Kennedy (:Yeah.
Adam (He/Him) (:I don't care how much money I make as long as I'm well because I the first time I had a breakdown I literally was in my mum's bed I couldn't even get up I had a loft bedroom I couldn't get up the stairs to the loft I literally was in my mum's bed for like three months over summer from uni didn't move for three months and then I went back and did my third year of uni so like I just I'm now I'm just like that's the worst I've been I would do anything to not be back in that position
Gem Kennedy (:Mm-hmm. ⁓
Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah.
Yeah, definitely. Yeah, it comes with a massive cost, doesn't it? And is it worth paying? Yeah. Yeah. ⁓
Adam (He/Him) (:Yeah.
It doesn't really matter how much money
you've got in the bank if you're bedbound and can't do anything.
Gem Kennedy (:No exactly and also that means then that you can't engage with anything you're passionate about so it's not like you've you know you've got that money and then you're loving life you're also just like yeah totally fucked basically yeah yeah
Adam (He/Him) (:Yeah. Yeah, you're not existing, basically.
Gem Kennedy (:And think with being part of the queer community and the neurodivergent community, I think there's definitely something about resourcefulness and having to figure out different ways of doing things because the usual way of doing things doesn't work for us. And that can be, it can be really liberating. And I've gone through a bit of a process around this feeling like it can be incredibly liberating and it can be fucking terrifying because there isn't the same structural or systemic things to
come back to that maybe other people may just pop off and like give self-employment a go and then they're like oh no thanks it's not for me I'll just you know go back to doing a nine-to-five and that isn't necessarily possible for us for various reasons you know like I'm a parent to two neurodivergent kids, a single parent so and we home educate so there's also like not loads of time and capacity for me to go and work full-time but I also think that like you were saying about how important it is to be well I don't think I could
do anything else or do anything I wasn't passionate about. I remember like, you know, early days when I was working in an office doing data entry and being like, this is so soul destroying for me. Like other people would enjoy that, but for me it just felt, yeah, awful. Yeah. Well, I guess we've kind of talked about some bold opinions there probably, but I wondered if you had any, anything that you think is a
Adam (He/Him) (:Yeah. I agree.
Gem Kennedy (:well for you a common sense thing to think or believe whereas other people might consider it to be like a bold or out there kind of thing to to be thinking.
Adam (He/Him) (:Yeah,
I feel like I don't think anything that I think is bold, but I feel like other people will be like literally everything that comes out your mouth. I'm like, God, can't say that. I just think in general, would just like things like trans visibility and visibility in general and activism and things like. You don't have to be. Like palatable. Like in like.
Gem Kennedy (:huh.
Adam (He/Him) (:corporate or like public spaces and things does that like we'll be like we'll do LGBTQ stuff but it can't be it has to be family friendly or it has to be like too vague like yeah we'll do rainbows but my god don't like say bisexual it's got the word sexual in it and my god that means you're like it's just like ⁓ it's it just misses the point doesn't it like our existence is political
Gem Kennedy (:Yeah.
Adam (He/Him) (:It's not too much to be like trans rights or human rights or put it on a t-shirt like it's not radical that's just the baseline of like that's how things should be. It's not bold but then other people like I've been doing this new in-person meetup in Rochdale and we had to have something so that people could find us at the venue.
Gem Kennedy (:Mm-hmm.
Adam (He/Him) (:I like, I'll just bring my little rainbow gnome along. So we put the gnome on the poster and was like, look for the rainbow gnome. Literally one of the first comments was some older woman being like, why is all this childish imagery? You're attracting children and grooming them. I was like, what is she on about? But thankfully, all the replies were literally like, Daidri love, it's a garden gnome, calm down. But I was just like, you're picking a fight where there isn't one. It's literally.
Gem Kennedy (:Thank
answers.
Adam (He/Him) (:On the poster it also said 18 plus only. I was like, I can't do any more than say that. Like, what do want me to do? But yeah, it's like just kind of turning things into something that there was nothing there to start with. Like you're picking this fight with this garden gnome. I'm like, I bought it from Aster, go and have a fight with Aster. Yeah, I used to have a really big one. ⁓
Gem Kennedy (:Thank
Thank
Yeah.
Oh I saw those, they're really big aren't they? Yeah I remember seeing them.
Adam (He/Him) (:And his legs, he got dropped and his legs came off. So we considered putting him in the wheelchair, but I couldn't figure out how to do that. So I had to get a new one. So he's only a little one, this one. But yeah, just like, it's just, yeah, like you see it and just think, oh, it's a cute thing. It was just something that people could see on the table and be like, oh, that's where I'm supposed to be. Nothing to do with trying to attract children or what. I just, I just.
Gem Kennedy (:Oh, that's the same.
Hello! Okay, yeah, they're cute.
Yeah.
Exactly.
Adam (He/Him) (:can't
follow the thread in the brain that takes people to that point. Yeah.
Gem Kennedy (:Yeah.
I think it's because like, compare, compulsory heterosexuality for anyone who doesn't know what it is, the idea that like, you're assumed, everyone is assumed to be straight unless they like, come out otherwise. Because that's so prevalent, it's seen as like, neutral or like the norm. And so anything else is considered like, deviant or you know, bad in some way. it like,
Adam (He/Him) (:Mm.
Mm. Yeah. Yeah.
Gem Kennedy (:Children are from such a small age exposed to like heterosexual ways of being. There's no mention of sex, it's just like mum and dad or you know all of those things but it's seen as like scandalous or shocking somehow to like just highlight the alternative that like other family structures or like other ways of being exist and yeah no
Adam (He/Him) (:Mmm.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, and kids don't care anyway. Like we've got godchildren
and our goddaughter, she's four, she got a doll's house. And just by coincidence, her mum was like, trust us to be the people who picked the house. And instead of a mum and a dad, there was two dads in the set by accident. And she said, the little girl said to us, she was like, ⁓ there's two dads in my dollhouse, like you and Uncle Luke. It's like she's don't care.
Gem Kennedy (:Ew. huh.
Yeah.
Adam (He/Him) (:Other people would be like, oh, I'm taking it back to the shop because it worked. Do you what? The pieces were wrong, but they're just whatever. It's fine.
Gem Kennedy (:Yeah, Hmm, I mean again, like so much to say about that. think, yeah. I guess, yeah, it just seems bizarre to me that also people confuse transness or like queerness with sex. Like it's not about ex.
Adam (He/Him) (:What?
Yes, yeah.
Yeah.
Gem Kennedy (:Like, there are people who are asexual, like, who don't have sex and don't... like, it's... it's... Yeah, it just...
Adam (He/Him) (:it yeah that is that's
one of the comments that i do get on stuff sometimes that's like ⁓ why do you have to make everything about sex i'm like i've not mentioned sex in my post you're the one who's come in the comments and said it like where have i said anything about that i'm like all i'm talking about is our existence what do think we're doing living like some massive sex castle together or something like ⁓
Gem Kennedy (:Right.
Yeah.
Hahaha
Adam (He/Him) (:like but that's just I don't know why I said that but like that's what some people like their first thought on seeing anything to do with like LGBTQ is like ⁓ you know they're being deviant and trying to push sex on people and it's just like no I'm literally sat at home watching Zellie like I'm not doing anything
Gem Kennedy (:of Sex Castle. I love that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I
love when people sort of say like being trans is like the one of the least interesting things about them. It just happens to be a thing. And there's obviously this obsession with like genitals as well, like sex and genitals. People seem to be obsessed with talking about those. And when literally like, I don't think that the queer community really cares in the same way. Like it's definitely not a hot topic to ⁓ be discussing. Yeah.
Adam (He/Him) (:Mm.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's like I said previously,
like I don't even think like being trans is just is like I don't think constantly in the day, I'm trans. ⁓ this is what body parts I've got all this. It's like when someone if within my friends group and stuff like that, obviously, I'm very openly out to everyone. ⁓ But if someone said something, I'd be like, right. Yeah, that does refer to me. ⁓ like if they bring in some
Gem Kennedy (:Yeah.
Adam (He/Him) (:political thing up or something but it's not something that I'm like constantly thinking about whereas it's like the things online people like why you so obsessed with us like I literally couldn't care less what you're doing with your life so why you so obsessed with me and they're like well it's impact it's gonna impact me I'm like how how does me being allowed to get married or use the toilet impact you like do you want to come and sit next to me whilst I have a wee like it's just stupid
Gem Kennedy (:Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, and
I think that it's almost like as it's no coincidence that as we see the like a rise in fascism we see a rise in like policing of people's bodies and trans people are like a perfect place to do that right because like it's already considered deviant by mainstream society to express anything other than like being male or female and and
Adam (He/Him) (:Mm. Yeah.
Gem Kennedy (:that kind of idea of control. It's the same as diet culture. Again, just how do we restrict control, stop people from feeling a sense of agency and autonomy because that is the enemy of fascism. Fascism wants you to conform and to do what you're told.
Adam (He/Him) (:And I think, like, the climate
we're in, like, we don't have... We have very little control of what's going on around us, so feel like it's just something that people can grab onto and be like, oh, yeah, I know what's right about this. I can take a bit of control with that situation because I can't control anything else going on around me.
Gem Kennedy (:Thank
He he.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, definitely. It makes me think of being autistic actually and how like you mentioned anxiety earlier. Like anxiety is very, very prevalent for so many of us autistics. Like it's really hard whether it's from a sensory perspective, you know, just like feeling the sort of anxious feeling in our bodies or, you know, obviously like thought loops if we, ⁓ particularly if we're monotropic people, but thinking about like,
there being so much, well, almost like maybe when we live in a bubble and we are connected to the people that we're connected to and we feel safe, it can give us this sense of control in some ways that our life is managed. And obviously life is never controllable, we never know what's gonna happen. But I think, I guess I'm just really noticing that right now it feels even harder to have a sense of calm or...
to lower anxiety because there's even more than usual that feels out of control, if that makes sense.
Adam (He/Him) (:Yeah,
yeah, no, relate to that, yeah. It's kind of like if I'll just be like, you know, I've had a really chill day, feeling good. And then it's like, you'll see someone on Twitter, or just on the mainstream news, or one of my friends will say, this happened. And it's like, for God's sake, let us have a breath kind of thing. Yeah.
Gem Kennedy (:Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, I don't know you've been reading Queer AF's newsletter, do you get that at all? Yeah, so if anyone hasn't come across that, like highly recommend it, it comes out every Saturday morning and it's really nice to think that you can kind of switch off from the, not all news, like personally I think it's important to kind of stay connected to what's going on in the world, but in terms of like things around like the Supreme Court and you know,
Adam (He/Him) (:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, dude.
Gem Kennedy (:the whole stuff that's going on at the moment around trans things, it's really nice to be able to have it all collated there and it's not sensational, it's really like balanced and yeah it's really really nice to access. So I'll put a link to that in the comments in case people ⁓ want to sign up.
Adam (He/Him) (:Yeah and they try to they
let you know the information that you need to know but then they also try to show positive things that are happening and things as well so it's kind of yeah it's good.
Gem Kennedy (:Exactly, yeah, you summarized it way better than I did. Yeah, exactly
that. Yeah. Okay, so I feel like we could talk about loads more things for a long time, but I'm conscious of not keeping you for too long. So I wondered if there's anything else that you want to chat about before we finish up, ⁓ and also let us know where people can find you. Obviously I will share links and things as well.
Adam (He/Him) (:Yeah, so I think we're lot... I've joined like a little collective of queer and trans people and on the 1st of June we are launching a new shirt. It's already on the website so you might be able to find it but it's officially launching on the 1st of June and it's in response to the Supreme Court thing, uh, rulings and all of the profits from it are going to the Good Law Project to fund their fight against the Supreme Court ruling. So yeah, it's a...
Gem Kennedy (:Really?
Amazing.
Adam (He/Him) (:designed for cis allies to wear so it's the slogan is me and tea and then anyone can wear it really but obviously if it's me and tea I am tea so it's like but it's designed with it's designed to get cis allies wearing this shirt in the in the same way that people have started wearing the protect the dolls shirts but this is we've tried to make this like really accessible so it's 15 pounds I think and
Gem Kennedy (:Yeah.
Yeah.
Adam (He/Him) (:the profits are going to the Good Law Project ⁓ and so that's going to launch on the 1st of June so we're doing like more PR and stuff around that so hopefully we can like raise some money towards just so because it was literally just came about through trans friends of mine being like we want to do something so it's kind of it's been really good so like you know the person who designed it was trans obviously I'm printing and making all the shirts and then like everyone who we've got working on it is part of the community so it's been a real
Gem Kennedy (:Amazing.
Yeah.
Adam (He/Him) (:like collaborative things. It's been really good rather than all the pressure being on one person to be like, because people have messaged me saying, can you do a protect the dolls shirt? And I'm like, no, because it's not my design. Like I can come up with something else, but it's also the busiest time of the year. So it's been nice that we've had this collaborative approach and been like, you know, I'll do that bit. I'll do the PR. I'll do the design. And it's yeah. So it's all coming together and it's launching on the 1st of June if people would like to.
Gem Kennedy (:Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Brilliant,
okay.
Adam (He/Him) (:support
that and do something to help feel I feel like it's important to feel like you're doing something like we feel like we're doing something by producing them but also it's an easier thing for people to be like I bought this shirt the profits are going to the good law project rather than feeling helpless and just seeing stuff in the news and being like but what do I do other than say I'm in support of trans people you can contribute
Gem Kennedy (:Yeah.
Yes.
Adam (He/Him) (:little bit more in a more tangible way
Gem Kennedy (:Yeah, yeah.
And almost takes us back to the
beginning of the conversation. Yeah, exactly. I was just going to say it takes us back to the beginning of the conversation around the importance or the significance of wearing a t-shirt that has a message on it. Because then those people are walking around in the world and maybe a lot of people will have no idea what it means, as in if they're not connected into those things. for people, if we were to see someone on the street wearing that, that would be really reassuring just to know that other people are around, especially
Adam (He/Him) (:I'm in.
Yeah.
Gem Kennedy (:live in like a more conservative area like I do or ⁓ yeah it's really yeah I think that's that sounds like a great way to channel it.
Adam (He/Him) (:Yeah, we've got the,
so we've got me and T on the front and then we've got a little QR code on the back that says get your me and T shirt. So hopefully we're gonna have a little bit of mini movement. That's the hope.
Gem Kennedy (:Thank you!
Yeah,
great, okay. Well, for anyone watching it, shall I, I'm just thinking, obviously I can send an email out with links and put them into the comments on YouTube, but I guess for anyone who doesn't know, they should go and check out Rainbow and Co. and it will be there from the 1st of June. Right.
Adam (He/Him) (:Yes, so it's rainbowandcall.uk.
Gem Kennedy (:Yeah, great. Okay, well thank you so
Adam (He/Him) (:I'll be updating the banner
on the 1st of June so it'll be obvious where it is.
Gem Kennedy (:Okay, brilliant, yeah. And also just go and check it out, because there's really cool things, like my Ritchie t-shirt. Is there anything else you want to talk about, or should we finish up?
Adam (He/Him) (:Yeah.
I don't think so, I'm good. No thank you. I love talking about stuff. I love talking about stuff because I feel like sometimes you talk about stuff in your personal life and people are like god he's on one again. But it's good to talk to someone who like is happy to have that conversation.
Gem Kennedy (:All right, well thank you so much for joining me. It's been so nice to talk to you again. yeah, I'm sure that people would find it interesting. Sorry.
Yeah definitely, yeah and I'm sure that everyone listening will have got a lot from it as well so thank you very much. Cool, alright well I'm gonna stop streaming and thank you so much everyone who's joined us and I'll see you later if you're coming to the live ones. We'll be back at two o'clock talking to Arlo West.
Adam (He/Him) (:never looked at.
